Hi, was this every worked out? With my old house, I will need several hubs if I want to use buttons in different rooms. At this point I don't anticipate any "mobile" buttons, but one never knows what the future will bring. Additionally, I will want buttons in multiple locations to be able to control the same matter-enabled devices. Can i import a matter device into multiple FLIC hubs?

If this does work the way Emil describes above, it would be great to have a backup/restore/clone functions instead of having to add configurations to multiple hubs. Sorta weird that there is no backup function today...

@sfmclaugh said in Looking for Smart Plugs that have "Toggle" in Alexa routines:

Want to control my lights w/flic2 plugged into smart plugs using one-button press. No clue what to buy. Current plugs only have "On" and "Off". Any tips?

Is that an Alexa routines thing or a device thing? My Leviton smart plugs have a "toggle" to control them via Matter, but the routines in Alexa offer only on, off, and brightness. I suppose you could use multiple actions in your Flic Hub configuration for that button- use Matter to do the desired toggle, then an Alexa routine to control the other actions you wish this routine to perform?

Well, I'm learning more now! Leviton did tell me that yes, in fact, their 4 device switch/controller advertises itself and functions as a "light" endpoint, and also 3 "Generic Switch" endpoints. So my hope here is that I would be able to add my 3 "Generic" switches to my Flic Hub, and then control my other matter lights/outlets/etc. with the switch, without having to add another Matter controller to the mix.

Is this in the future for my FLIC hub??

Ok, i think i'll ask my last question- no, my question does NOT make sense!

Slowly learning matter, and it looks like the Matter device must support "multi-admin" mode (which, allegedly, virtually all Matter certified devices do).

Next, I need another Matter Controller / Hub. Seems like there's a million options out there.

Then- since my Flic hub now "owns" my matter devices- I need to "Share" the Matter device from the Flic Hub.

I can then commission the device on the additional Matter controller and control the device via either a FLIC button or another Matter device managed by this <future> second hub.

At least that's what I think needs to happen right now. Maybe after some more research I'll change my tune yet again!!

As currently constituted, the FLIC hub only supports FLIC devices as "input" devices. But with the nature of Matter (devices can only be registered to one hub) means that I can't use any other input devices* to control a device that is currently being controlled by a FLIC button.

For example, I have a 4 button Leviton wall switch that is now getting Matter functionality. I want to be able to control a Matter device with both a Flic button/twist AND a button on my wall switch. To do this, there would have to be a facility to import a non-FLIC device on my Flic hub.

Maybe my lack of Matter knowledge is showing here, but I'm currently trying to wean off a home full of UPB devices- where it was a no-brainer to control a UPB device from one manufacturer with a UPB switch from a different manufacturer.

Does this make sense??

@buckyswider Hi @Emil ! So I installed that beta Matter code on my Leviton plugs and switches...and VIOLA! They are now all advertising the proper tcp service all the time. (At least for the first 24 hours or so). So it seems like we are good. Presumably now the FLIC hub will never show these as "offline" again. Thanks for your counseling!

I do have another Matter related question that came up dealing with Leviton support. But I don't want to be guilty of "thread drift", so I'll start a new thread.

Thanks again!

@Emil Thanks for that awesome engagement Emil! I should've ran my query through perplexity, since that gives source links. Gotta learn to take chatgpt with healthy skepticism!
Anyhow, Leviton has said that their devices are coded to advertise the protocol, so they feel there is some sort of bug. They have offered me their latest matter beta code, which I will load onto my devices next week (out of town right now) and see if there is any difference. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again!

@Emil said in Matter devices showing offline:

@buckyswider _matterc._udp is for commissioning, so that one is only present while the device is "pairable", typically 15 minutes after boot when the device is factory reset (i.e. no Matter pairings yet).

_matter._tcp shall be advertised after the device has been commissioned (paired), one service per "fabric" (i.e. per "hub" it has been commissioned to), as long as it is powered on and connected to the network. If it does not advertise this service, it will not be possible to reach it by Matter controllers. If you don't see this service when you expect to, it seems like a bug in that device.

Maybe you have devices from other Matter brands you can test with?

Hi again @Emil. The Tapo device seems to be advertising _matter.tcp most of the time now. Surfing the web leaves me confused about expected behaviour of Matter Wifi devices...so I did what any techie would do...I asked chatgpt! Now I know it's not perfect, but that answer seems to be a "No". Really curious is the statement about mDNS query. Again, I'm just spitballin' here, but is it possible that a hub is supposed to issue an mDNS query in normal operation to try to recover an offline device? I did email Leviton support as well to get their take on this. Here is the complete ChatGPT answer. Thanks!

No, a Matter-over-Wi-Fi device does not need to advertise the _matter._tcp service at all times, but it must do so when it is available for commissioning or reachable on the IP network for control or communication.

Here's how it works:

1. Commissioning Phase:

   • The device must advertise the _matter._tcp service via mDNS (Multicast DNS) during commissioning to allow controllers (e.g., smart home apps) to discover it.
   • This includes service subtypes that convey info like device type, vendor ID, etc.

2. Operational Phase:

   • Once the device is commissioned and in normal operation, it can limit or stop advertising _matter._tcp to reduce network chatter.
   • However, it must re-advertise it again if requested (e.g., via an mDNS query) or when the device is rebooted, comes back online, or changes its network configuration.

3. Dormant/Low Power Devices:

   • Battery-powered or low-power devices can defer or limit mDNS advertisement when in a sleep state, as long as they resume it appropriately when active or queried.

Summary:

A Matter-over-Wi-Fi device does not need to continuously advertise _matter._tcp, but must do so when it's discoverable (e.g., commissioning) or active on the network.

@Emil said in Matter devices showing offline:

@buckyswider _matterc._udp is for commissioning, so that one is only present while the device is "pairable", typically 15 minutes after boot when the device is factory reset (i.e. no Matter pairings yet).

_matter._tcp shall be advertised after the device has been commissioned (paired), one service per "fabric" (i.e. per "hub" it has been commissioned to), as long as it is powered on and connected to the network. If it does not advertise this service, it will not be possible to reach it by Matter controllers. If you don't see this service when you expect to, it seems like a bug in that device.

Maybe you have devices from other Matter brands you can test with?

Thanks @Emil ! I think we posted about the same time, but in case you haven't seen mine I rigged up a Tapo (TPLINK) switch to test. When it powered on, it advertised both TCP and UDP matter protocols. When I connected it to the FLIC hub, neither was showing anymore. I now saw this note, so I powered up the switch again, and it it showing both _tcp and _udp. Now an hour later...it is not showing either. I wonder if this is some anomaly of the scanner app? Oddly, I do now see another device showing _matter._tcp- but that appears to be an Amazon Echo. (IP matches that, but it looks like the scanner is showing a MAC, which doesn't match...aye karumba).

I will keep looking at the services scanner occasionally to see if anything else show up. Maybe I'll pick up a third manufacturer's matter wifi device to see how that behaves.

@Emil So I wired up a TAPO (TP Link) switch to see if it is advertising _matter. After connecting to WiFi (and before connecting to a Matter hub) I do see _matter._tcp and _matterc._udp. Now let me add it to Flic and see if keeps advertising...

So I added it to my Flic hub, and now it is NOT advertising either _matter protocol. Looks like the proper operation (based on devices from two different manufacturers) is to only advertise when you are not paired with a hub (or maybe in setup mode?). So my speculation here is that it is something with the matter hub- the hub thinks the device is still configured (but shows offline), and the device isn't advertising _matter because it is already owned by a hub...

Let me know if there's anything I can do to continue troubleshooting. I've kept the one device as showing "offline" for the time being...

@Emil said in Matter devices showing offline:

@buckyswider yes, assuming your phone/tablet you run the app on is connected to the same network as the flic hub and the Matter device, all Matter devices that are currently paired shall advertise that service, regardless of if it's connected or not.

Hmmm, that is weird then. I see many, many other services on my local network (who knew that TiVo had so many services!). But nothing that seems to be matter related, and DEFINITELY nothing with "Matter" in the name... I assume that since you need to know the service name to code your listener, it can't just be something that Leviton is doing differently...